So I thought: why not share the excitement with all of you by hosting a character-based meta-thon?
Here's how it works: if you have a theory about one of the SGA characters, this is the place to share it. You can weigh in on such thorny issues as: What's Carson's story arc, and which Carson counts? Where are the PTB going next with Todd? Who is in love with whom? What are they really doing in between what we see on screen?
Or maybe there's a favourite trope in fanon that you want to see more of: Is John still buggy? Is Kavanaugh really such an ass, or do we just love to hate him? How many fathers does Teyla actually have, anyway?
What I want to say I'll do in response to any meaty meta morsel presented is write a drabble on that topic. I really want to. But I know full well that after marking about the sixth assignment today, I'm just going to be going, "OMG, entertain meeeee." So I'm making a counter-proposal instead: if you see a meaty morsel of meta and find it inspiring, go at it! Drabble that thing but good.
Meta! Drabbles! It's a win/win situation. Am I right? :)
I'll kick things off with some of the meta comments I've been leaving around the place recently.
Here is my reading of Rodney and his friendship with John, in response to
Friendship of Legends
The thing that leapt to my mind was how damn lonely Rodney must have been all his life, before John. For him to have taken so long to understand that the friendships he's made on Atlantis are real implies that he's been picked on, frozen out, betrayed by people he thought liked him, and unloved by kin so consistently that he had given up.
I mean, there are so many people Rodney could have called out for in this episode -- Mum, Jeannie, Katie, Jennifer, even Carson. Most people that sick and scared call for their Mum, or sometimes Dad, even if that person can't be there. Maybe a spouse or sibling or child. But nearly always kin -- the person who is their rock, who makes them feel better just by being close.
So this is John: Rodney's rock.
It also says a lot about Rodney's relationship with John that he was so reluctant to acknowledge it as friendship at all (Sunday), that he's so damn jealous of it (Chaya... and all the rest), even though it was clearly one of the first connections he made on Atlantis and there's never been any real competition for John's attention. Even reading it just as friendship, it says so much about Rodney's inner life and how empty it has been of any real intimacy.
For instance, I'm rethinking how Rodney must have felt when John took all those first steps, like asking him onto the team, or wanting to play with him and hang out and be a geek, and even when John cuffed him around the ear or was angry. I wonder how Rodney felt when it just kept happening, and John didn't give up on him, didn't just stop the friendship when it got hard (when Rodney's giant brain is an issue, and not just because it's linked to his ego). In fact -- John makes Rodney work for it after Duranda. Can you imagine SG1 Rodney working on a friendship? Trusting that it's worth it? I can't. But after having done so, wow, Rodney must be so invested! Yeah, it's no wonder John's right there as his rock.
These signs of friendship are all so much more important, aren't they, if Rodney was a little broken at the start?
It explains so much about how he was back in SG1, and his crush on Carter, and why he's so oblivious. And it also explains why he's blossomed on Atlantis. That's the kind of change that happens when people stop clenching up defensively against the world, and start to believe that they can be loved.
It even explains why Rodney has been dating, instead of doing that awful, defensive sexist thing he used to do to Sam. He feels safe enough to reach out to others now. Because no matter what, he believes John has is back.
God, I love their friendship, above and beyond any OTPness. I am such a friendshipper!
In response to
The Shape of Jealousy
In The Shrine, John got a massive hit of Rodney needing him. Because of that, he actually, (very, very cautiously) got his hopes up. Maybe, John thinks, Rodney is finally ready to get with the program. For God's sake, he ran to John, almost threw himself into John's arms! It's obvious how much he cares for John -- and it's such a relief for John to finally know that, and to know that he has some slight chance. After The Shrine, how can Rodney just not get it? Still?
But Rodney's really good at not getting things that disturb his carefully constructed view of himself. It's this deep defence mechanism that he created to protect himself from all the abuse, rejection, teasing, professional jealousy and plain dislike.
He doesn't have any pressing need to rethink his friendship with John: he trusts John will be there, like he trusts gravity. But loving John? Being gay? Having another tick against him in terms of being accepted? Nu-uh. He's going to keep being oblivious as long as he possibly can.
He feels kind of weird whenever he thinks about the brain parasite and the things he did then. But anyone would, given the circumstances, right? And he's not responsible for anything he did then, anyway! But there's this niggle, this twist in his gut sometimes when John is near. Embarrassment, he tells himself. It'll pass in time... Oh, look! Keller is all shiny. I'll focus on that.
So there's John -- he practically got to cuddle Rodney just a short while ago. And ever since, he keeps getting this funny lifting feeling in his chest whenever Rodney's near: Maybe, he he finally lets himself think. Maybe! Oh, God, maybe...
And then he walks into Rodney's quarters and finds him getting ready for a date. With Keller.
Oh, yeah, you bet John's jealous and dismayed. And he knows exactly what Rodney's doing, and he hates it, but he's not quite sure enough to call Rodney on it overtly.
And, yeah, even Rodney knows that John's hurt when he walks out. But don't worry, he'll have explained it away by the end of the day. John was jealous because he wants Keller. Or cockblocking because he can be an ass that way. Or petty, because he doesn't want Rodney to be happy, when John's still single. Yeah, that's it. It's all John's fault, and it's not like Rodney really did anything wrong.
Both Sheppard's Choice and the remix by
What I said about 'Sheppard's Choice'
In response to , I said:
I don't know if you red my tagline: John has cross-dressed all his life. It's not his fault no one else has noticed.
Your take here [the idea of Sheppard quietly enduring 'pretending' that he is in the wrong body, and appreciating the irony in the situation] is pretty much the core of the idea I originally had, which Sheppard's Choice is a shorthand for.
While I made do with getting down the central issue in the short story, the idea that really interests me is that the longer John stays in a female body, the more normalised it will become, and the harder to let go, just through simple inertia. So, I wonder, when I think about continuing this story, where is John's tipping point? The moment he decides not to go back, despite the risks to what he has in his life now? And what happens then, because this is John, and he's inarticulate about his feelings, but he's not a bad strategist. How does he go about getting what he wants without ever telling? Or does he end up telling someone, an ally? Who?
And can he out-think a well-meaning Rodney? How does he neutralise him, as he's obviously by far the biggest threat? What lengths will John go to?
I don't think we've often seen him go all the way to the end of his leash; maybe with feeding Todd, and that was for Rodney.
What is Sheppard's choice? I still really want to know!
And finally, I've already ficced in response to
Commitment and Joint Custody
Oh, John. Just when I think I've fathomed him, there's something more. Because that's the look of someone who has accepted that he loves, and is more than fine with it in the privacy of his own head. I wonder what he thinks about -- I suspect it's not porn all that often. At all. OMG.
I see slightly different Johns on different days (one of the joys of fanfic, after all), but that last screencap fits right into the core of John-ness as I see it.
A while ago I posted that I've been craving marriage fic, that in my lizard brain it seems like time they stop dating and make a commitment. And part of me can see that, if the circumstances twisted enough in just the right way, John would publicly go there if Rodney wanted it enough (do not ask about my epic John-gets-arrested-for-conduct-unbecomin
But now I'm wondering if I want that because it's already true. That screencap makes me think that John is already married to Rodney, in every way that matters to him. That at some point he just owned up to the way he feels (maybe McKay and Mrs Miller?), accepted it couldn't go anywhere for all the usual reasons (DADT, Rodney being straight, etc, etc), but let Rodney be that for him anyway. And now Rodney's that comforting place he thinks about and holds close when things suck -- you know how you can still feel close to someone you haven't seen in years, because you still think of them all the time, even if you never speak? Is John like that with Rodney? Gets 90% of what he needs from their friendship, and the other 10% from the Rodney he holds close inside his head and heart?
Gah! Now I've convinced myself that John's married to Rodney, and he knows it.
As for the jacket: My vote is that it's an old jacket of John's that he had shipped in on the Daedelus; although I can also see the argument of Rodney having left it in the room (it's a slightly dorky leather jacket, as these things go).
My favourite scenario is actually the least likely I can think of: that they have joint custody. That for some reason they ended up getting a jacket on a mission, or scoring one on Earth while they were off being dorks together (won it in a raffle at an MIT quiz nite or something), and so they take turns with it. It's a Thing. They bitch at each other about whose turn it is, and fight over who really won it.
That's the kind of thing good meta leads to, people! So let's give everyone lots of inspiration. :)
I'll shut up now. Take it away with the meta and drabbles. Tinhat theories and wild extrapolations welcome, along with thoughtful canon-based ponderings and theories about what we love in fanon.
ETA: I've just reposted this entry, as it wasn't showing up on people's flists for some reason. Thanks to
September 23 2008, 11:27:25 UTC 3 years ago Edited: September 23 2008, 11:30:21 UTC
Joe Flanigan is secretly playing John as homosexual
The first is not my theory originally--it's
What if Joe thought the role of John Sheppard seemed just a little too flat for him?
It struck me as quite an open reaction from someone in the military--not that there wouldn't BE reactions like that, but I have to look at it in context of the writing as well as the character. I can't help but watch Joe's acting and wonder if the choices he makes in regards to John's reactions to Rodney have more meaning behind them. When you combine acting choice, writing decisions, directing choices, and scoring, we get scenes like the opener in Tracker, as
Speaking of which:
The writers are throwing in nods to McShep more frequently and more obviously (to the McSheppers) these days
We know the writers know about the McShep contingent, we know they're prone to throwing 'ships a bone dating back to SG-1 days, and they've consistently done so--overtly, imo--at least four, maybe five times in the season so far:
"McKay's alive?" ((Okay, not as overt as the others, but look at the way it's shot, and the fact that Rodney didn't get the corresponding close-up and moody music...))
Bathtub scene.
Calling for John.
Pier scene*.
"I heard you're going off-world."
**I split them up because they're in different time periods, and we see that Rodney displays different behavior towards everyone but John depending on how far 'gone' he is.
This is a pattern of writing behavior that is worth noticing, in my opinion. This is subtext at Sam and Jack level, almost--and actually, they're able to be a lot more overt with this than they were for Sam and Jack, because the ordinary Schmoe viewer would pick up on the het stuff, and that's a typical way to go for tv shows. It's been said before, but if that had been a man and a woman in the opening scene (in either role)--hell, they'd NEVER even have written it, because it would have displayed a level of jealousy and hint of desperation that would be embarrassing for the person in John's role.
Now, I don't mean to suggest that the writers write every scene thinking 'okay, how would this look genderswapped?' but five years in, with a ton of conventions under their belt (the veterans having dealt with Jack/Daniel all those years)? The overly simplistic answer, to me, is that they're not actively trying to dissuade us. Yet, Joe Mallozzi's comment about the bath quote in Broken Ties tells us that they're clearly not just 'not trying to dissuade.'
It's one thing to have a scene like that in an episode and to just slyly wink at your fanbase and not say anything. In my eyes, it's something quite different to point at it and go, 'oh, btw, that was WAY more shippy in the original script. Thought you'd like to know!'
Whether they're doing it to keep us happy due to the romantic plot arc in season five or not, I'll take it with two grabby hands. I just think that it'd be great if they could combine my two theories in to an AU branch-off or have John come out in the movie.
Ahh, I loves my tinhat.
September 23 2008, 11:47:52 UTC 3 years ago
I tend to agree with both your points. *adjusts tinhat rakishly* I'm sure JFlan has hinted at this at cons, hasn't he? And John certainly reads that way very consistently which can't be an accident -- once or twice, yes, sure. But not as a central part of the character the way it is with John.
Kudos to JFlan for making such an interesting choice too, if it was him that decided to play it that way.
As for the writers, yes, there seems to be some circumstantial evidence there. As you say, they mention McShep and stuff, so it seems reasonable that they make occasional shout-outs.
I'm trying to imagine now how I'd like a coming out scene to go, if they did it as one of your scenarios. Would I prefer it understated, or for shock value? I can see pleasures in both. Clearly it is something I shall have to
ficponder more deeply. :)3 years ago
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September 23 2008, 11:36:26 UTC 3 years ago
When he looked for John he was always Colonel and Sheppard and just then John.
Or I'm just an obsessed fan, who look for a deeper meaning in the writers every line?
September 23 2008, 11:51:57 UTC 3 years ago
potato"curious fan". :)That is an odd thing! Especially as Rodney has been so consistently formal with John until recently. I wonder why he'd be that formal with Keller in a crisis? Is it because he's on the radio and others can hear (a form of professional courtesy, in other words)? Or does it say something deeper about his relationships with both Jennifer and John? And if so, what?
Thanks for the thinky idea!
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September 23 2008, 12:22:43 UTC 3 years ago
Theory About a Supporting Character
It's featured in a thousand fics. It takes such prominent place that it should be listed as part of the pairing sometimes. It is nearly a character in its own right.John Sheppard's bed.
John Sheppard's teeny-tiny bed.
So what were TPTB thinking? Was it on sale? Did the shopper for the set designer get Istorp confused with Estork and buy the wrong size? Why did they put a child's bed in Sheppard's room and why have they left it there?
I mean, it's not like they tried very hard to make any sort of statement with the set design. (Did they get Ancient and Asgaard mixed up? Is that why Atlantis looks like the scratch and dent room at Ikea?)
(I have a long-winded theory about Rodney and Ronon and their relationship, but I think I have to re-watch Tracker to fully articulate it and bleeech. Maybe later.)
September 23 2008, 13:25:21 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Theory About a Supporting Character
What can I say? When you're right, you're right. That bed is an enigma, and it deserves to be thought about very deeply until it is solved.I for one am partial to the idea that TPTB are a bit prudish, and the bed is their way of signalling, "Nope! No sex happens here!" Which leaves us with the interesting dilemma of Sheppard being cast as the ladies man and hero figure, but never seeing it coming and never, seemingly, following through.
What does this say about John? I don't think he's asexual -- I mean, he kisses the women back readily enough once they throw themselves at him. But it stays right there. At home, he's not interested. But why? What could TPTB possibly mean by that contradiction? He's the man off planet, but he keeps it strictly in his pants at home? Is that meant to be macho? Skanky? Professionalism?
Or is it really just a reflection of their secret prudery?
*puts on tin hat*
Clearly, this is yet more evidence that John is gay, and feels it's too dangerous to act on his desires. He's never going to ask another man into his bed, ergo, better not to tempt fate. Better to stick safely with a bed barely big enough for one. :)
Also, I am very interested in your long-winded theory, een if you only sketch it out in shorthand.
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September 23 2008, 13:00:39 UTC 3 years ago Edited: September 23 2008, 13:02:40 UTC
(I've lifted this directly from the transcript at Gateworld, only the names have been changed to protect the innocent.)
GYM. John is twirling a fighting stick around him. Jennifer walks in, rubbing her hands together and sighing nervously. John stops twirling the stick and turns to face her.
John: What?
Jennifer: OK, here's the thing: I've been thinking and, uh, I need to know your intentions.
John: Intentions?
Jennifer: With Rodney.
John: I don't have any intentions.
Jennifer: Oh! OK. (She turns away, smiling.) Good.
(She starts to leave.)
John: Wait.
(Jennifer stops and turns back to him.)
John: What d'you mean by intentions?
Jennifer: I mean, are you interested in him in a ... romantic fashion?
John: No.
Jennifer: Good!
(Again she turns to leave, smiling.)
John: Wait.
(Jennifer stops and turns back tetchily.)
Jennifer: What?
(Biting back a smile, John puts one end of the stick on the floor and leans on the top of it.)
John: Maybe I do ... have intentions.
Jennifer (groaning): Oh.
John: Do you have intentions?
Jennifer: Yes, well, of course I do -- that's why I was asking you.
John: So what are we gonna do about it?
(Jennifer sighs.)
Jennifer: I don't know.
(John lifts the stick off the ground and swings it gently in Jennifer's direction. She flinches back a little.)
Jennifer: I'm not gonna fight you for her, if that's what you're thinking.
John: Great!
Jennifer: I'm not gonna step aside, either, so we're just gonna have to let her decide.
John (still trying to hide his smile): OK.
Jennifer: OK. So ... (she walks forward, her right hand outstretched) ... may the best person win.
(Smiling, John takes her hand and shakes it. Jennifer meets his eyes nervously, already convinced that she's lost.)
I think that's what they meant to write,they just the names confused.
September 23 2008, 13:27:00 UTC 3 years ago
That seriously needs to be turned into fic!
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September 23 2008, 15:02:05 UTC 3 years ago
I think that Kavanagh is a Berkeley hippie/political demonstrator physicist who hates himself for selling out to the military. It seemed like a good idea at the time - he told himself he could try to influence things from the inside - but it alienated him from all his political activist friends, and, really, he knows it was because they'd give him the money and the labs and the data. His work has always come above his political convictions, really, although he wishes that wasn't true. He goes to Atlantis because he really does think things will be different under a civilian commander, and he's bitterly disappointed when they aren't, and that it's all just the same thing all over again as he goes about alienating his colleagues etc. But he loves the work, and he actually does make a few friends among the scientists; a few of them feel the same way as him, and they have fun bitching away about what an asshole McKay is to work with (because, let's face it, he is). I think he's friends with Simpson.
I think Teyla in S1 is in a very difficult position. She's having to be very careful, trying to get the measure of the Lanteans and build a relationship with them while retaining her position of control and her integrity for her own people. It can't have been easy to stay boss of the Athosians, being so young and a woman, and we can see Halling's dissent. Sure, she's becoming friends with John, but John's one of the commanders - at this stage, she doesn't realize that John doesn't do politics. She doesn't want to betray any weakness to him by asking him things like where the infirmary is, or what a biophysicist is.
Maybe Kavanagh befriends her in the cafeteria, or something. He's got long hair, like her people. He's acerbic and clearly stunned by her attractiveness - he's probably extra-nice at first - and she's flattered, and thinks he's funny, even though she doesn't agree with everything he says. She sees through him, sure, but she's lonely, she's got a lot of tension, and she knows he's a sure thing, so she sleeps with him a few times, swearing him to secrecy on the threat that she'll break his legs (he's turned on by strong women). Also, in my mind Teyla is a lot more calculating and cool than we think, sometimes. She uses Kavanagh consciously, because she quickly realizes how few people like him. She knows nobody will believe him if he says anything, so he's risk-free. She continues to totally ignore him in public.
As time goes on, Kavanagh falls in love with Teyla, but he sees her getting closer and closer to what he sees as the enemy, Weir and Sheppard and McKay, and he isn't able to settle for a casual sexual relationship, as she wants. He gets more and more demanding and vicious, and eventually she just stops seeing him. He leaves Atlantis. While he's there, he tries to call her a couple of times. She talks to him, guardedly, because she does feel some affection for him, and feels guilty about the way she's acted. He comes back. That's when Ronon nearly tortures him, and Teyla doesn't come through to back him up on his story about calling his friends in Atlantis, even though he doesn't give her away. She knows by then that it would jeopardize her position on Atlantis, and she's been suspected enough times already for her bond with the Wraith. So Kavanagh, bitter and miserable and heartbroken, goes back to Earth again, and continues to be even more of a bastard.
Maybe one day I will write that story! But it continues to be my personal canon. *polishes tinhat*
September 23 2008, 15:29:30 UTC 3 years ago
You know, I actually had some sympathy for Kavanaugh in 38 minutes. It was one of the first episodes I saw, and I didn't know any of the characters yet. I tuned in a bit late, and just about the first thing I saw was him being the voice of reason, and getting blown out of the water by Weir (who was later totally condescending to the Athosians about their religion -- not her finest hour).
I do love to hate Kavanaugh -- he makes a great foil. But I don't actually think he's particularly evil in canon. In fact, I think he's Rodney, just without enough cred to transcend his personality.
He's a man in the wrong place, and wrong time, with the wrong enemy (because Rodney will never forgive Kavanaugh for saying in 38 Minutes, exactly what Rodney said about Teal'c, when he was stuck in the gate buffer!) and worst of all, no John taking his side and helping him shine.
*hearts Kavanaugh and hopes he finds his own soldier one day, back in the SGC*
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September 23 2008, 17:05:29 UTC 3 years ago
My theory about Ronon and Rodney and friendship.
Okay, I re-watched Tracker. Still bleech.I was actively uncomfortable watching the Rodney/Ronon scenes in this episode. If that's the way these two guys work together after years in the field, Sheppard needs to rework the team. I said somewhere else that I found the relationship itself to be out of character in this episode. I don't see the level of antogonism and complete lack of respect portrayed in Tracker as being the least bit in keeping with the way they are presented normally. I don't mean that Ronon wasn't nice to Rodney, hell if he was nice, Rodney would probably send him for a brain scan. I mean that Ronon was completely unable to work with Rodney in an emergency, apparently because Rodney is irritating.
So, are Ronon and Rodney friends at all? I think so, but I may be seeing something that isn't there. The writer of Tracker certainly doesn't think so, but the writers of The Shrine and Broken Ties seem to see things differently.
Ronon being friends with Rodney is no more unlikely, to my mind, than him being friends with John. Seriously their perfect together. Rodney gets mouthing off, Ronon ignores him for a while and then tells him to shut up, Rodney says okay and everthing's cool - pudding cups for two please.
The tinhat portion of my thinking is that TPTB are applying the same warped idea that people are friends (or more than friends) only when they are equally attractive, in exactly the same way fic writers do when they have Rodney apologize for not being pretty enough for John.
Full disclosure: I don't actually find Rodney irritating, even when he's supposed to be. I have been known to portray Rodney and Ronon as more than friends in fic on occasion.
September 23 2008, 19:15:45 UTC 3 years ago
Re: My theory about Ronon and Rodney and friendship.
I agree with you 100% about 'Tracker'. That was their relationship 3 years ago, when Ronon still didn't trust anybody.In 'Sunday', John mentions that Ronon hangs out with him and Teyla only, and doesn't mention Rodney. So, I'd believe they're not so much 'friends' at that point, but they are teammates. In 'Tao', Rodney makes the effort, heals Ronon's scars, and Ronon hugs him at the end. By 'The Shrine', Ronon would go to the ends of
the earthPegasus to give Rodney that final day with his friends, and tells Jeannie he 'owes Rodney one'. Now, suddenly, in 'Tracker' Ronon finds Rodney too irritating to work with? And some of that smirking he does just comes off as mean.Even if this were a believable scenario, what a wasted opportunity for having them start out at odds but end up bonding and finding out new things about each other. That's what I thought it was going to be about anyway. But then, guess that wouldn't work with their little love triangle idea, would it? Grrr!
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September 23 2008, 22:34:14 UTC 3 years ago
Teyla/Weir
Within literally half an episode of watching this show, I was both a McShep fan and a Teyla/Weir shipper. It always seemed to me that Teyla was really the only option for Weir - everyone else is under her command. I suppose technically Teyla is too, but as leader of her people, she really has a place of her own, and can stand as Elizabeth's equal. Also, hot.I've wanted this fic FOREVER. But I can't write Elizabeth for anything, so I've never been able to produce it myself. :(
September 23 2008, 23:51:35 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Teyla/Weir
The vid, The Glass byhttp://www.imeem.com/people/yeu2Jf-/vid
Everyone's seen this vid yes? If not, go watch - it's glorious.
I never liked Elizabeth, so I can't ship her with anyone, but I can totally see Teyla/Woolsey for the exact reasons you cite. Also she's the only person on Atlantis that's enough of a grown up for him.
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September 23 2008, 22:50:31 UTC 3 years ago
And I had a thought/story idea pop into my head when I was re-watching Irresistible: if John is gay/bi and hiding it, that would be the perfect opportunity for him to accidentally come out to Rodney. The way I see it going down, John hits on Rodney while under the influence and is embarrassed about it later because he'd never thought about him that way before... but now that he has, he can't stop thinking about it. For his part, Rodney is embarrassed too - if he'd known John was gay (Rodney can't help but think in binary terms) he never would've put him in that situation. So he tries really hard to just be cool about it and not let it affect their friendship - besides, he's never had a gay friend before; it makes him feel enlightened. And they go on like that for years, because they're both dorks.
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September 23 2008, 23:58:27 UTC 3 years ago
Two thoughts
I've just recently come back to SGA after several years away so maybe this has already been explained. I don't know. Here goes though.In fic Teyla and Ronon are always very open and welcoming of gay relationships, or any relationship outside the hetro-norm really. This is usually explained by accepting love however you find it due to the Wraith and what have you. My question is why? There are just as many reasons for them to be against same-sex relationships because of the need for children in a galaxy that constantly being eaten by the Wraith. It's just something I find vaguely puzzling and I was wondering if other people had any thoughts on it.
Another question type mini-meta, this time with Carson. I've read a bunch of fic since re-discovering SGA and when it comes to Carson ver 2.0 the opinion seems to be that it's still Carson. Which, yes, but more so that the new Carson can just be fitted into the old Carson mold. They had what, two years?, of very different experiences not to mention the mental trauma Carson-2 must have from the everything. New Carson =/= Old Carson and it kinda bothers me that people seem to treat him that way. Again maybe I'm just missing something and if that's the case can someone point me in the right direction?
September 24 2008, 00:40:00 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Two thoughts
This is probably not helpful, but I think the reason fic writers treat Carson and Carson v.2.0 as the same is because the SGA writers do. You're right, though - definitely two different people, and I'd love to read some fic about that. (Unfortunately, Carson's the other character I can't write for anything, so I'm out on this one. Sorry.)As for Teyla and Ronon being open about gay relationships... I've seen it a bunch of different ways - everything from 'as long as you do your duty (produce children), then you can love who you want' to 'it's weird, but whatever'. In general, I think we tend to think of Teyla and Ronon as accepting, so we assume they will accept a same-sex relationship. I think it would make us uncomfortable to think of them as anti-same-sex relationships, regardless of the fact that it's not homophobia. It would just make them less likeable. At least that's my current theory. Ask again in half an hour.
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September 24 2008, 01:18:45 UTC 3 years ago
now that I've written all this, I'm not sure this is what you were asking for, but here goes
I have a meta notion for Rodney in which his dad is/was a psychiatrist focused on gifted children, and his mom is/was a psychologist specializing in family issues, and they basically put subtle but strong opposing pressures on Rodney-- his dad wanted him to develop his intelligence and become a big showy prodigy to prove his father's theories on raising genius kids, while his mom wanted him to follow his bliss, etc. and defended his piano-playing when his father would have preferred that Rodney excel at something more quantifiable. They argued a lot over him in "healthy" non-argumentative ways.Among other things, they taught him "never bottle anything up", leading to his tendency to monologue.
But each in their own way encouraged Rodney to focus on himself to the exclusion of others, and he was socially inept in school. But his dad's pedagogical theory involved keeping gifted kids in normal schools for social reasons, and providing accelerated opportunities on an extracurricular basis.
So Rodney was forced to slog through normal school until he got so bored and disgruntled and hated everyone around him for being less smart and picking on him etc. that he failed everything on purpose, and his parents felt like they had no choice but to make a deal with him that he could go to college at 16. Which meant his dad had to go back on years of advice that he'd given and written, setting back his career. Angst! Resentment!
Meanwhile, his mom took charge of making sure Jeannie got a little less genius training and more social experience from a young age. But Jeannie still felt manipulated as she got older, and eventually she and Rodney both broke off contact with their parents almost entirely.
September 24 2008, 02:30:45 UTC 3 years ago
Re: now that I've written all this, I'm not sure this is what you were asking for, but here goes
Huh, that's interesting. I always saw it the other way around, with Rodney's Dad being the family-focused one, mostly because of that one throwaway line in... I think, McKay and Mrs Miller where Jeannie says he'd be "so proud" they were finally working together. But you can read it either way - he wants them *both* to be top achievers, both so he can prove himself twice over and because then he can get *even more* papers out of it, such as one debunking the idea that if you have a gifted child the other children in the family get neglected.I like your theory.
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September 24 2008, 01:52:44 UTC 3 years ago
Where does money come from?
We've seen them barter, but let's face it: the Pegasus Galaxy MUST have some kind of currency. A few times, money has been obliquely mentioned (in "Irresponsible," Lucius saying "lunch is on me," and Ford having to trade a gun for dinner and a room). What do they sell? How do they make money?Here's my thought: Suggested by Sheppard (who's got the background for it), Lorne and the other marines who have a fairly standard schedule of planet-hopping spend a little time currency investing. Like, take 10 Quihls from MX5-932 and trade them for 20 Nims on MX3-887, where you can trade them for 30 Cidols on MRR-541. Then by the time you're back at the first planet a couple of weeks later, you can trade for 80 Quihls and put them in the bank.
Oh, also there are banks. Or the Pegasus equivalent, even if they're more like Mafia loansharks. And on key planets, there's an Atlantis account, from which any marine or airman with the proper passcode can withdraw enough money for a meal and a room at the inn when he realizes he's stuck on the planet overnight. Because seriously, they just aren't given free room and board everywhere they go, right?
Also it's possible that Cadman hit the jackpot when she collected some cool stones from M5R-226 that turned out to be very rare and valuable on a couple of other planets.
September 24 2008, 02:29:55 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Where does money come from?
This is a question that bothers me and the writers have neatly sidestepped answering. I have to wonder though if each planet really has their own currency though or if groups of planets that trade with each other often share a currency.Also is barter just as accepted as hard money and vice versa? Is there an universal currency measure? What type of metals do they use? That at least has to be a common trait.
Clearly I've thought about this way too much. I do like the idea of banks though.
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September 24 2008, 02:54:01 UTC 3 years ago
I'm here via the Newsletter and I just wanted to add my two cents' worth. I'm glad somebody has mentioned the already being married theory. I'm working on a Broken Ties tagfic and, to me, it seems as if John Sheppard's world is crumbling; the team dynamic isn't going to withstand the pressures/changes easily. Such as Teyla's being rescued, having a baby and her ::cough,cough:: lover back; Ronon's having endured grotesque trauma and needing to heal physically and emotionally.
So, here's John. His support network has narrowed down to himself and Rodney. If before he wanted to spend his free time with Rodney, now I believe he needs to. Even without thoughts of sex, I think John feels he could easily be married to Rodney. There is such a sense of familiarity to their relationship. In contrast, we see John screwing up his face when he bumps into his ex at the funeral in Outcast. I just rewatched that last night and looked very closely. I didn't know The Flan could look that uncomfortable.
Finally, there's hurt John in Tracker. I'd originally attributed his petulance as a sign of being pissed off, but another reviewer convinced me that he was really hurt by Rodney going off and chasing after a ... woman.
And, FWIW, I really do think The Flan is deliberately playing John as gay. All. The. Way!
/personal observations
::giggles and waves bye::
September 24 2008, 07:32:23 UTC 3 years ago
Todd, the Wraith, and Personality
(I originally wrote this in February - I haven't seen anything to make me change my mind)I have this theory, or rather, hypothesis, about why some wraith have actual personalities and others don't. Leave aside any thought that sometimes the writers just don't give them any lines - that knocks me out of my suspended disbelief. Let's just assume that it's all real, shall we?
In season 1 we met Steve, who developed a bit of personality the longer John talked at him, but who never much rose above the level of interaction of a storm trooper in a Star Wars video game (Halt, rebel scum!) I think Bob only ever hissed in his short time on Atlantis, but the nameless super-wraith from the outer planet (Defiant One) had some real pizazz. Not a big talker, but he had the flair of a professional wrestler. He was also the first wraith they'd met that they knew was at least 10,000 years old. I am not counting the Keeper from Rising, because I think the hive queens are very different from the warriors. All the other wraith warriors they met, fought, and/or killed were just sort of there and hissed or growled or roared and were otherwise pretty one-note.
Season 2 gave us the foodie!wraith from Condemned, who definitely had character, the first officer of the Aurora, who managed to play Ancient well enough to fool the captain and crew, and then, of course, Michael, who, having been human for a while, might have had a personality transplant of sorts.
I haven't seen all of season 3 yet (we didn't have cable for more than half the season) but I have just seen Common Ground and the wraith-to-be-named-Todd has more personality than any other than Michael, but then I knew that from Seer through Spoils of War (although I wasn't sure til now how much they showed in CG.) I haven't seen Sateda yet, and I don't know for sure how many other wraith they interact with in this season.
In the season 4 episode Reunion, Rodney meets a wraith he can talk science to and who actually talks science back (unlike the wraith scientists in Allies who I don't remember actually talking at all.) Then we have the whole story arc with Todd.
Here's the thing: I think age is a factor in how individual wraith are. Learning that they were mass-cloned to make up a force to overwhelm the Ancients with sheer numbers makes me think that those wraith warriors are the youngest they have. Once the Ancients fled and the wraith had the galaxy to themselves, there would be no need to hatch out any more. In fact, since their goal since then seems to be to hibernate in order not to hunt humans to extinction and thus starve themselves, creating any new wraith would be counterproductive. So we can divide the wraith into two categories: those who are older than the war, and those born for the war.
I think all the interesting wraith we've seen fall into the first category. I think that as wraith go on they develop more of an ability to separate themselves from the hive mind - to think of themselves as individuals. I think that the youngest wraith, the cannon fodder wraith, are probably the ones who spend the most time in hibernation, and have the least life experience despite being thousands of years old, and have the least practice in thinking of themselves at all.
I suspect that Todd is very old indeed. He has a sense of humor (offering to shake hands with Carter) and there's a depth to his interactions with Sheppard in Common Ground that I can't quite describe. The one from Reunion gives a similar impression of age - he spoke to Rodney as a fellow scientist, not dinner. He knew that Rodney had changed the Asuran base code and had re-activated the attack command and wanted to talk shop.
I wonder how much contact the wraith actually had with the Ancients before the war started.
September 24 2008, 08:14:24 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Todd, the Wraith, and Personality
What a great hypothesis. Thank for sharing it -- I need to mull it over for a bit, but I really think you're onto something.3 years ago
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September 24 2008, 13:44:43 UTC 3 years ago
Teyla, the Athosians, and children
Teyla has had at least one kid before Torren. Think about it, did she seem like a first time mom during her pregnancy and birth? Here's a bit of what I think the Athosian attitudes (and probably those of other Pegasus cultures) toward pregnancies and kids are (I know its kinda long, and English is not my first language, but bear with me here):Giving birth and raising kids are considered two totally separate things. Female fertility peaks in their late teens and early twenties, and the risks for complications/birth defects are low at that age too. However, if a woman in her early 20s decides to raise a child, she will be mostly confined to the village/camp/whatever where she lives - traders, hunters, warriors etc. will be away from home for days, if not weeks at a time and may be hurt/killed while they are gone. Those professions are therefore deemed too risky for parents with small children. Once the kid has reached her or his teens, the mother will be too old to become a successful hunter/warrior.
Because of this, young women who want to "pursue a career outside the home" (i.e. become hunters/warriors etc.) are encouraged to have children while they are still young. Those children are then raised by others - women and men who don't desire being away from the village or those who are to old to be warriors/have been injured/etc. There are single parents of either gender as well as couples or larger groups who raise children together. Of course, there are women who have and raise their own children at a young age. Women who are fertile but don't have any children are considered very selfish and will not be regarded highly in their community. (Men stay fertile much longer, but are still encouraged to father children as early as possible. However, men can father more children than women can give birth to, so if a men doesn't show any interest in having children, it's not as big a deal.)
In addition to this, genetic material and newborn children are considered a valuable commodity and are often traded or given to trading partners as a sign of trust. Usually, a man will impregnate a woman of another group and her group will raise the child. This prevents inbreeding, which is important in Pegasus because populations regularly go through bottle necks because of the cullings.
While it is not uncommon for a woman to give away her newborn to another group, it is considered more of a sacrifice, and most woman bond with their child during pregnancy and at least want to see it grow up.
So back to Teyla: When she was young, she knew she needed to have children to gain the respect of her people, or she would never be a successful leader. She wanted to train as a warrior as soon as possible, tough. So she just had one kid (maybe two). She gave away at least one of them (probably to the Genii, as many of them are infertile) and managed to land them a huge trading agreement because of this. Everyone respected her as their future leader and no one tried to pressure her into having more children (usually, 3 is considered the minimum).
I think Torren wasn't planned, and Teyla was seriously considering giving up her job on Atlantis to raise him. In the end, she decided to stay on the team, though, and Torren is mostly being raised by Kanaan. (This explains why everyone made such a big deal about her having to decide whether she wanted to stay on the team or not: On Athos, once you have made the decision to raise a child, you stay with them until they reach their teens.)
September 24 2008, 23:00:07 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Teyla, the Athosians, and children
I really like this idea. And it works too. Also makes a lot of sense for the Pegasus galaxy to have this sort of thing be the norm.September 24 2008, 17:21:02 UTC 3 years ago
Rodney's mother?
This is something I haven't seen as common fanon, but I am convinced that Rodney's mother either died or left the family shortly after Jeannie's birth.In the entire run of SGA, Rodney has only mentioned his mother once, in "The Shrine" - on day 10, he thinks she's the face he doesn't recognize, speaking words he doesn't understand. She's also mentioned in SG-1's "Redemption," when he says his childhood was unhappy because his mom & dad hated each other. Other than that, he's never said anything about her.
But Rodney has mentioned his father on several occasions - with Jeannie, "This is not what Dad would've wanted" - M&MM, and talking about getting lost in the shopping mall in "Miller's Crossing,"; that his father blamed him for Jeannie leaving the lights on in the beginning "Tao of Rodney."
The last two references are interesting because picking up kids at the mall is (marginally) more a motherly activity; and why would only his father get upset about the lights left on? And the "what Dad would have wanted" - Jeannie doesn't counter with anything about their mother.
Rodney's difficult relationships with the opposite sex (his antagonizing Sam Carter, his uncomfortably awkward romance with Katie Brown) might stem in part from abandonment issues, losing his mother at a young age. Unresolved maternal issues might also explain some of his problems with Jeannie having a daughter. As well, if they didn't have a mother, and their father worked, Rodney might've played a major role in raising Jeannie, so Jeannie leaving the science they shared to have a family of her own apart from him would have hurt him deeply, must have felt like a terrible betrayal.
September 24 2008, 17:45:49 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Rodney's mother?
You just made me wish for the fic where Rodney's mother ran off with John's mom and they're actually both alive and happy, living on a small farm in Canada somewhere.September 24 2008, 20:11:49 UTC 3 years ago
Random side note along those lines: the show may frustrate my anthropology-minded soul to no end at times, but one thing I do appreciate -- even though the Athosians and Satedans don't really have a whole lot of depth as cultures, they are distinctly very different from each other, and best of all, the behavior of individuals from those cultures is consistent with what we've been given to believe the two cultures are like. You can immediately tell an Athosian or a Satedan, and you can't swap one for the other. As much as I wish we'd have gotten more depth and background to the two groups, I really do appreciate that they're not just the same group under different names (as the random medieval villages often tend to be).
September 25 2008, 00:33:16 UTC 3 years ago
And yes, I appreciate the cultural distinctions we've been given too. Makes Teyla and Ronon so much richer in my mind. If I werent' so tired, I'd try to articulate, but maybe in a fic sometime. But, for example,I was pleased and surprised when I made my podvid that I had enough source material to work with for the Athosians!
Anonymous
September 24 2008, 20:40:11 UTC 3 years ago
sorry, no lj
This has been puzzling me. Everybody likes Zelenka, and most of us assume the characters do too. But Martin Gero insists that Zelenka is disliked in canon (http://xparrot.livejournal.com/87184.htI'd shrug and say he's just one
delusionalwriter. But in episodes like "Quarantine" and "Critical Mass", while not the creepy panty sniffer of (apparently) Gero's imagination, Zelenka comes off as a stereotypical awkward geek who's unused to women and kids. Yet fanon has him as a master networker. Rodney with social skills, king of the black market, the go-to guy for relationship advice. Not infrequently married with children, even. So what about the "real" Zelenka? Is he popular and respected by all, or a loner, maybe as much of a social misfit in his own way as Rodney was? Inquiring minds, etcetera.-L
January 8 2009, 18:53:04 UTC 3 years ago
January 22 2009, 11:52:42 UTC 3 years ago